1
00:00:11,860 --> 00:00:09,110
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

2
00:00:22,980 --> 00:00:11,870
from Australia for science and reason

3
00:00:26,070 --> 00:00:22,990
[Music]

4
00:00:29,950 --> 00:00:26,080
yes it's the skeptic zone episode number

5
00:00:32,050 --> 00:00:29,960
558 for the 30th of June 2019

6
00:00:35,740 --> 00:00:32,060
richardsaunders here coming to you live

7
00:00:38,110 --> 00:00:35,750
from the squaring the strange studios in

8
00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:38,120
Albuquerque New Mexico and with me is

9
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:40,129
one of the hosts of squaring the strange

10
00:00:43,930 --> 00:00:42,050
you know him well from previous

11
00:00:45,939 --> 00:00:43,940
interviews on the skipping zone it's Ben

12
00:00:48,910 --> 00:00:45,949
Radford Here I am thanks for having me

13
00:00:51,490 --> 00:00:48,920
on oh hello Ben and what a thrill it is

14
00:00:54,070 --> 00:00:51,500
to visit Albuquerque to see you and to

15
00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:54,080
be in the squaring the strange studios

16
00:00:59,290 --> 00:00:56,510
this is quite an experience yes it's

17
00:01:02,290 --> 00:00:59,300
it's not quite as fancy as as your

18
00:01:04,869 --> 00:01:02,300
studio but it oh it's of Isis you

19
00:01:06,580 --> 00:01:04,879
haven't seen my studio I've seen I'd see

20
00:01:09,430 --> 00:01:06,590
video that when you when i Skype with

21
00:01:11,890 --> 00:01:09,440
you that's true and I'm very pleased to

22
00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:11,900
say folks that this studio comes

23
00:01:17,430 --> 00:01:14,870
complete with cat cat are lots of books

24
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:17,440
lots of odd things everything from

25
00:01:25,210 --> 00:01:22,610
chupacabras to to evil clowns crystal

26
00:01:27,370 --> 00:01:25,220
skulls all manner weirdness it is the

27
00:01:29,290 --> 00:01:27,380
weird office it really his ideas a

28
00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:29,300
delight to be here later on we're going

29
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:31,970
to look around Albuquerque and and after

30
00:01:36,670 --> 00:01:34,850
that today what a treat for me I'm going

31
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:36,680
to be a special guest on squaring the

32
00:01:40,420 --> 00:01:38,450
strange absolutely we're happy to have

33
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:40,430
you on for a recording session for that

34
00:01:45,670 --> 00:01:43,370
so it's a big day we're recording the

35
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:45,680
skeptic zone in the morning and squaring

36
00:01:50,140 --> 00:01:47,690
the strange in the afternoon but I'm

37
00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:50,150
sure you'll just just can't wait to find

38
00:01:54,270 --> 00:01:51,590
out what's coming up on the skeptics on

39
00:01:57,580 --> 00:01:54,280
this week yes absolutely yeah I can tell

40
00:01:59,320 --> 00:01:57,590
he said nervously okay we're an

41
00:02:01,480 --> 00:01:59,330
interesting show we have for you later

42
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:01,490
on Ben later on in the show you and I

43
00:02:05,590 --> 00:02:03,290
will be discussing the case of psychic

44
00:02:08,050 --> 00:02:05,600
detectives one of my pepto

45
00:02:11,290 --> 00:02:08,060
one of your Bugaboos Bugaboos yes one of

46
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:11,300
mine as well Bugaboos sister Albuquerque

47
00:02:16,509 --> 00:02:14,330
no it's it's I think it's a British one

48
00:02:18,790 --> 00:02:16,519
but both being colonies former colonies

49
00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:18,800
yes Bugaboos bugaboos we're going to

50
00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:21,650
look back into the 1930s a report about

51
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:23,930
psychic detectives even way back then I

52
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:25,610
had no idea until I was doing some

53
00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:27,010
research that these people have been

54
00:02:32,050 --> 00:02:30,260
pestering police for so long it's a long

55
00:02:33,580 --> 00:02:32,060
time to be wasting police resources and

56
00:02:35,380 --> 00:02:33,590
diverting important

57
00:02:37,620 --> 00:02:35,390
important attention from from where the

58
00:02:40,180 --> 00:02:37,630
missing people actually are yeah and

59
00:02:41,559 --> 00:02:40,190
it's been such a fascinating thing and

60
00:02:43,630 --> 00:02:41,569
that even this morning doing a bit of

61
00:02:46,390 --> 00:02:43,640
research I came across an episode of in

62
00:02:48,970 --> 00:02:46,400
search of of Leonard Nimoy talking about

63
00:02:50,229 --> 00:02:48,980
psychic detective I'll probably link to

64
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:50,239
that on the show nights that's coming up

65
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:52,250
later on in the show also later on the

66
00:02:57,370 --> 00:02:55,730
show our occasional guest reporter susan

67
00:03:00,160 --> 00:02:57,380
gerbic from guerrilla skepticism on

68
00:03:04,570 --> 00:03:00,170
wikipedia she's going to be speaking to

69
00:03:08,199 --> 00:03:04,580
Tony Ortega who is involved with post

70
00:03:09,970 --> 00:03:08,209
Scientology work in fact I'm not I have

71
00:03:12,190 --> 00:03:09,980
not been very familiar with this until

72
00:03:15,130 --> 00:03:12,200
now do you know somewhat more about it I

73
00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:15,140
know a little bit about it we don't out

74
00:03:17,979 --> 00:03:16,760
here in New Mexico we don't have I mean

75
00:03:19,089 --> 00:03:17,989
everyone knows there's Scientologists

76
00:03:21,190 --> 00:03:19,099
everywhere but it's particularly

77
00:03:24,820 --> 00:03:21,200
prevalent of course in Los Angeles and

78
00:03:27,850 --> 00:03:24,830
New York and the bigger places but yeah

79
00:03:29,410 --> 00:03:27,860
I mean certainly with the the the hit

80
00:03:32,710 --> 00:03:29,420
the Scientology has taken over the past

81
00:03:34,539 --> 00:03:32,720
few years with you know Leah Remini and

82
00:03:35,949 --> 00:03:34,549
and documentaries coming out that have

83
00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:35,959
really given Scientology a black eye

84
00:03:40,870 --> 00:03:38,390
after many years of basically being you

85
00:03:41,979 --> 00:03:40,880
know invincible yeah there's more and

86
00:03:43,420 --> 00:03:41,989
more people that are coming out and

87
00:03:45,370 --> 00:03:43,430
there are you know sort of you know

88
00:03:48,069 --> 00:03:45,380
helping people transition out of these

89
00:03:49,270 --> 00:03:48,079
these sorts of yeah thanks it's

90
00:03:50,650 --> 00:03:49,280
fascinating and Thank You Susan for

91
00:03:53,349 --> 00:03:50,660
sending me the report folks I think

92
00:03:55,509 --> 00:03:53,359
you'll enjoy listening to this towards

93
00:03:57,580 --> 00:03:55,519
the end of the show are we gonna kick

94
00:04:00,670 --> 00:03:57,590
off the show however coming up after

95
00:04:02,349 --> 00:04:00,680
this with a report from Trish Hann our

96
00:04:06,309 --> 00:04:02,359
reporter in Sydney and her segment

97
00:04:09,370 --> 00:04:06,319
attrition chips the so-called psychic

98
00:04:11,830 --> 00:04:09,380
Sally Morgan yes British psychic was

99
00:04:13,809 --> 00:04:11,840
recently and she could still be doing

100
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:13,819
the rounds in Australia as we record

101
00:04:19,420 --> 00:04:17,810
live psychic shows Trish and Jessica

102
00:04:22,210 --> 00:04:19,430
singer from the Australian skeptics and

103
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:22,220
dr. Brad Makai turned up at the theater

104
00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:24,050
and were involved in handing out

105
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:26,720
leaflets to people before they went in

106
00:04:32,770 --> 00:04:30,050
advising them what to look out for I

107
00:04:34,930 --> 00:04:32,780
like that I like that I went when Sylvia

108
00:04:37,270 --> 00:04:34,940
Browne convicted Fellon Sylvia Browne of

109
00:04:40,779 --> 00:04:37,280
course when she came to town here in

110
00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:40,789
Albuquerque myself and some of the local

111
00:04:45,610 --> 00:04:42,110
skeptics went and took it upon ourselves

112
00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:45,620
to to help advertise advertiser of her

113
00:04:49,930 --> 00:04:47,150
show and so

114
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:49,940
so when ahead of her show when she

115
00:04:54,370 --> 00:04:52,610
played at a local casino we put out

116
00:04:56,260 --> 00:04:54,380
banners saying convicted felons Tilly

117
00:04:57,670 --> 00:04:56,270
Brown this way we want to make sure that

118
00:05:00,280 --> 00:04:57,680
the people who are coming for the show

119
00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:00,290
know where to go very good we never got

120
00:05:07,210 --> 00:05:03,290
to thank you not a not an invite to a

121
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:07,220
show not a thank you just just just cold

122
00:05:11,140 --> 00:05:09,410
stares from the from the staff skeptics

123
00:05:13,810 --> 00:05:11,150
and such helpful people folks they

124
00:05:16,330 --> 00:05:13,820
really are and included in that report

125
00:05:18,070 --> 00:05:16,340
is a reading of the flyer the text from

126
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:18,080
the fly so people can hear for

127
00:05:23,379 --> 00:05:20,090
themselves what the skeptics were

128
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:23,389
handing out in Sydney as I said folks

129
00:05:26,830 --> 00:05:24,650
it's what a thrill it is to be in a

130
00:05:29,260 --> 00:05:26,840
different studio and in a real

131
00:05:32,170 --> 00:05:29,270
podcasting studio here folks it's such a

132
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:32,180
stop laughing Ben it's yes it's it's

133
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:34,130
hi-tech he's how he said looking around

134
00:05:38,379 --> 00:05:36,410
at I think there's actually a couple

135
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:38,389
cassette tapes right behind you there

136
00:05:41,710 --> 00:05:40,370
there may be a VHS tape around here

137
00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:41,720
somewhere if you look a little closer

138
00:05:53,219 --> 00:05:50,630
now I tell you what what yes granddad

139
00:05:56,230 --> 00:05:53,229
told me about that

140
00:05:57,820 --> 00:05:56,240
but now it's time for you and I to run

141
00:06:00,279 --> 00:05:57,830
out the door jump into the car and

142
00:06:03,159 --> 00:06:00,289
you're going to feed me some what some

143
00:06:06,190 --> 00:06:03,169
green chili I think today yes yes one of

144
00:06:08,529 --> 00:06:06,200
our local crops when people think green

145
00:06:10,330 --> 00:06:08,539
they often think of marijuana but but

146
00:06:12,730 --> 00:06:10,340
we're actually to be talking about green

147
00:06:14,290 --> 00:06:12,740
chili green chili yes there's different

148
00:06:15,490 --> 00:06:14,300
types of there's red and green chilies

149
00:06:17,409 --> 00:06:15,500
they're actually the same chili just

150
00:06:18,940 --> 00:06:17,419
depends on when you harvest it but

151
00:06:20,950 --> 00:06:18,950
that's what our state is known for is

152
00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:20,960
our our spicy chilies and they're

153
00:06:24,610 --> 00:06:22,160
delicious

154
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:24,620
well even when you pick me up from the

155
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:25,970
airport and I'm looking at thinking wow

156
00:06:29,409 --> 00:06:27,650
this is interesting I look at the car in

157
00:06:32,650 --> 00:06:29,419
front of us and on the number plate is

158
00:06:35,409 --> 00:06:32,660
the green and red chili it's been said

159
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:35,419
that our local our state question is red

160
00:06:39,610 --> 00:06:37,610
or green meaning you know if you're if

161
00:06:40,690 --> 00:06:39,620
you order food red or green what do you

162
00:06:41,230 --> 00:06:40,700
want it could be assumption is you want

163
00:06:43,450 --> 00:06:41,240
chili on it

164
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:43,460
doesn't matter if it's you know eggs

165
00:06:48,790 --> 00:06:46,970
pancakes ice cream the the default is

166
00:06:51,159 --> 00:06:48,800
you want chili I think I've come to the

167
00:07:11,030 --> 00:06:51,169
right place why we do that I hope you

168
00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:20,430
hmm let's have some Trish and chips his

169
00:07:31,170 --> 00:07:29,110
Trish Han around five years ago a polite

170
00:07:33,390 --> 00:07:31,180
chap called mark till Brooke engaged in

171
00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:33,400
some skeptical activism and handed out

172
00:07:37,020 --> 00:07:35,200
some informational fliers to audience

173
00:07:40,890 --> 00:07:37,030
members as they filed into a psychic

174
00:07:42,780 --> 00:07:40,900
Sally Show in the UK on the first night

175
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:42,790
in Manchester he was threatened and

176
00:07:46,170 --> 00:07:44,890
abused by members of the crew so on the

177
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:46,180
next night he reached out to the

178
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:48,010
Merseyside skeptics with some backup in

179
00:07:53,550 --> 00:07:50,050
Liverpool and even though he wasn't

180
00:07:54,750 --> 00:07:53,560
alone this time he was still hassled you

181
00:07:56,700 --> 00:07:54,760
may have heard about what happened a

182
00:07:58,170 --> 00:07:56,710
while later at the London show you may

183
00:08:00,420 --> 00:07:58,180
have even seen the news reports or

184
00:08:03,180 --> 00:08:00,430
YouTube video if not I'll ask Richard to

185
00:08:05,310 --> 00:08:03,190
post some links I saw it happening in

186
00:08:06,870 --> 00:08:05,320
real time as I sat nearby acting as a

187
00:08:09,260 --> 00:08:06,880
witness pretending to be waiting for a

188
00:08:11,610 --> 00:08:09,270
mate and it was really quite scary

189
00:08:13,380 --> 00:08:11,620
Sally Morgan's husband and son-in-law

190
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:13,390
came out and verbally abused mark

191
00:08:17,130 --> 00:08:15,490
multiple times including at one point

192
00:08:19,690 --> 00:08:17,140
charging at him and chasing him

193
00:08:22,970 --> 00:08:19,700
backwards into the road

194
00:08:24,980 --> 00:08:22,980
fast forward to last week and on the

195
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:24,990
other side of the world a small group of

196
00:08:29,150 --> 00:08:26,730
Australian skeptics are standing outside

197
00:08:31,130 --> 00:08:29,160
the State Theatre in Sydney handing out

198
00:08:34,130 --> 00:08:31,140
a very familiar-looking leaflet outside

199
00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:34,140
a psychic sunny show I spent ages

200
00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:36,030
planning and plotting to make sure that

201
00:08:40,490 --> 00:08:37,680
we would be safe this time both

202
00:08:42,110 --> 00:08:40,500
physically and legally myself and

203
00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:42,120
Jessica singer strategically positioned

204
00:08:46,010 --> 00:08:43,289
ourselves either side of the entrance

205
00:08:47,270 --> 00:08:46,020
with Brad Makai as our witness covertly

206
00:08:47,740 --> 00:08:47,280
watching from the other side of the

207
00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:47,750
street

208
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:50,430
we had secret sound recording equipment

209
00:08:54,230 --> 00:08:52,530
just in case of a confrontation we had

210
00:08:56,390 --> 00:08:54,240
signals we would use in case of trouble

211
00:08:59,180 --> 00:08:56,400
and Brad was ready start filming as soon

212
00:09:01,880 --> 00:08:59,190
as anything dodgy happened and nothing

213
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:01,890
happened one audience member got a

214
00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:04,050
little bit shirty of Jessica asking why

215
00:09:07,370 --> 00:09:05,970
we were bothering she replied that we

216
00:09:10,010 --> 00:09:07,380
bother because we think it's important

217
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:10,020
and that was about it oh and someone

218
00:09:14,570 --> 00:09:11,490
else thought I was a Scientologist which

219
00:09:16,580 --> 00:09:14,580
was a first for me personally so all

220
00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:16,590
those precautions all that preparation

221
00:09:21,970 --> 00:09:19,260
my heart rate didn't go beneath 100 BPM

222
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:21,980
for most of the evening for nothing

223
00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:25,890
except it wasn't nothing our aim and the

224
00:09:31,010 --> 00:09:27,780
aim of all activists should be to

225
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:31,020
educate I'd guesstimate that we handed

226
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:32,610
out flyers to about a hundred people

227
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:34,530
which is around a quarter of the

228
00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:36,930
audience by the way the State Theatre

229
00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:38,640
seeks 2,000 so make of that what you

230
00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:41,760
will the content of the flyer which

231
00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:43,140
Richard will read for you now is

232
00:09:48,020 --> 00:09:45,690
deliberately verbose and not overtly

233
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:48,030
anti psychic again this was very

234
00:09:53,450 --> 00:09:50,090
strategic

235
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:53,460
[Music]

236
00:09:59,310 --> 00:09:57,010
look after yourself there are people who

237
00:10:01,650 --> 00:09:59,320
say they can speak with loved ones after

238
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:01,660
they have passed away some will make it

239
00:10:06,060 --> 00:10:03,930
clear that the shows are for quote

240
00:10:08,820 --> 00:10:06,070
entertainment purposes only

241
00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:08,830
unquote if you're here tonight simply

242
00:10:13,710 --> 00:10:11,590
for entertainment then no harm can be

243
00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:13,720
done and you should relax and enjoy the

244
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:16,990
performance the chances are though that

245
00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:19,330
you have lost someone close to you and

246
00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:21,760
you're looking for a way to hear from

247
00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:24,760
them or contact them again if this is

248
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:28,120
you it's important to make sure you are

249
00:10:33,660 --> 00:10:30,730
not tricked or misled into something

250
00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:33,670
that may not be real easy steps you can

251
00:10:38,610 --> 00:10:36,880
take tonight to make sure you are

252
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:38,620
looking after yourself and not being

253
00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:41,410
deceived you can simply ask yourself the

254
00:10:46,140 --> 00:10:43,510
following questions during the

255
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:46,150
performance how broad and generic are

256
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:49,330
the statements and questions often the

257
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:52,570
psychic might ask for someone whose name

258
00:11:00,530 --> 00:10:56,170
begins with a letter quote who is the

259
00:11:03,870 --> 00:11:00,540
father figure with the s name Steve Stan

260
00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:03,880
unquote and will make very broad

261
00:11:08,970 --> 00:11:06,910
statements before getting narrower why

262
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:08,980
would they do this if they are already

263
00:11:15,630 --> 00:11:11,770
hearing from a specific person they

264
00:11:17,730 --> 00:11:15,640
should be able to say quote I'm hearing

265
00:11:20,970 --> 00:11:17,740
from Sam Jones who died from liver

266
00:11:24,330 --> 00:11:20,980
disease in April 2016 he was a plumber

267
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:24,340
and he says his wife is Mary Jones

268
00:11:29,820 --> 00:11:27,850
unquote how likely is it that the

269
00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:29,830
statements or questions apply to at

270
00:11:37,290 --> 00:11:33,670
least one person if the psychic makes a

271
00:11:40,020 --> 00:11:37,300
statement how accurate is it if they say

272
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:40,030
that an elderly person had a bad back or

273
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:44,320
asks quote who is it that had cancer end

274
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:48,160
quote or quote who is it that had chest

275
00:11:52,980 --> 00:11:49,890
problems end quote

276
00:11:55,740 --> 00:11:52,990
these are likely to apply to lots of

277
00:11:58,140 --> 00:11:55,750
people and will match someone in an

278
00:12:01,140 --> 00:11:58,150
audience of hundreds be careful about

279
00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:01,150
giving information some psychics ask

280
00:12:05,460 --> 00:12:03,190
guests to fill out information

281
00:12:07,619 --> 00:12:05,470
cards beforehand and we'll have people

282
00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:07,629
listening to conversations before the

283
00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:10,990
show.if the psychic can genuinely speak

284
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:13,240
to a loved one you don't need to give

285
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,170
them any information before or during

286
00:12:23,490 --> 00:12:19,839
the show how many statements and

287
00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:23,500
questions are incorrect as the psychic

288
00:12:28,410 --> 00:12:25,839
is making statements or simply asking

289
00:12:31,230 --> 00:12:28,420
many questions are they getting straight

290
00:12:33,869 --> 00:12:31,240
to a correct one or are they listing

291
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:33,879
lots of other things that are incorrect

292
00:12:39,449 --> 00:12:36,910
the focus will always be drawn to the

293
00:12:41,970 --> 00:12:39,459
correct statements and incorrect guesses

294
00:12:43,949 --> 00:12:41,980
dismissed quickly but if you can count

295
00:12:46,019 --> 00:12:43,959
the number of things the psychic says

296
00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:46,029
that are incorrect it becomes less

297
00:12:51,329 --> 00:12:48,310
surprising if they eventually say

298
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:51,339
something correct if you want to find

299
00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:53,290
out more about the people who claim to

300
00:12:59,579 --> 00:12:55,750
speak with the dead you can watch these

301
00:13:04,019 --> 00:12:59,589
videos at tinyurl.com slash psychic

302
00:13:09,259 --> 00:13:04,029
shows and tinyurl.com slash about cold

303
00:13:12,809 --> 00:13:09,269
reading or go to WWE to calm / medium

304
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:12,819
HTML for a good starting point ask

305
00:13:17,939 --> 00:13:15,610
questions and be skeptical about any

306
00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:17,949
information you read both for and

307
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:21,180
against psychics or mediums

308
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:30,340
the text is non-confrontational and a

309
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:31,760
lot of the statements made in the flyer

310
00:13:35,950 --> 00:13:33,410
were things that plenty of psychics

311
00:13:37,690 --> 00:13:35,960
actually say themselves in fact famous

312
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:37,700
American psychic John Edwards said in

313
00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:39,050
The Sydney Morning Herald last week

314
00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:41,630
quote you shouldn't be providing

315
00:13:45,790 --> 00:13:43,430
information if you are dealing with a

316
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,800
psychic a card reader or a medium your

317
00:13:51,610 --> 00:13:47,600
job is to let them give you the

318
00:13:53,410 --> 00:13:51,620
information and quote we didn't see any

319
00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:53,420
of our Flyers on the street or the foyer

320
00:13:57,370 --> 00:13:55,910
floor as we left so hopefully those who

321
00:13:59,019 --> 00:13:57,380
have them had a chance to read them

322
00:14:01,690 --> 00:13:59,029
before the show or during the interval

323
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:01,700
and if even one person recognized

324
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:03,110
something from our information in the

325
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:06,010
show I'm happy we didn't waste our time

326
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:08,450
you'll never change someone's mind by

327
00:14:11,890 --> 00:14:09,440
telling them they've just given their

328
00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:11,900
time and money to a con artist they'll

329
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:13,220
just double down and become defensive

330
00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:16,490
it's normal human behavior often the

331
00:14:20,410 --> 00:14:18,200
best way to reach people outside of

332
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:20,420
life-and-death scenarios is to give them

333
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:22,010
the information and let them come to

334
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:24,160
their own conclusion at their own pace

335
00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:27,410
there's no big rush here psychics have

336
00:14:31,410 --> 00:14:29,510
been around for centuries and while

337
00:14:33,340 --> 00:14:31,420
their popularity seems to be waning I

338
00:14:36,270 --> 00:14:33,350
guarantee you they'll be coming to an

339
00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:36,280
empty theater or RSL club near you soon

340
00:14:41,079 --> 00:14:39,380
if you'd like to get involved in similar

341
00:14:42,730 --> 00:14:41,089
activism in your area but don't know

342
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:42,740
where to start please feel free to

343
00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:44,690
contact me via the skeptic zone and I'd

344
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:45,920
be happy to give you some help to do so

345
00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:48,890
safely and effectively this is Trish Han

346
00:14:59,810 --> 00:14:49,740
for the skeptic zone

347
00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:14,600
[Music]

348
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:19,260
hi Richard oh hi Trish hi would you like

349
00:15:21,810 --> 00:15:19,930
a coffee

350
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:21,820
yeah thanks what are you working on I'm

351
00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:23,650
trying to come up with a new promo to

352
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:25,590
play on the skeptic zone who's it for

353
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:28,930
the good thinking Society in the UK you

354
00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:31,690
know the oh yeah I know them the guys

355
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:33,430
who recently chased the homeopaths out

356
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:35,530
of the UK Public Health System oh did

357
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:37,600
they yeah they campaigned and lobbied

358
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:38,800
government for a while and now you

359
00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:41,920
cannot get homeopathy on the NHS so they

360
00:15:45,270 --> 00:15:43,270
can now spend public money on health

361
00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:45,280
care that works Yeah right look I'll

362
00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:47,620
mention that in the promo now their

363
00:15:54,030 --> 00:15:52,180
website is good thinking society org and

364
00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:54,040
that website is a good resource for

365
00:15:58,020 --> 00:15:56,500
learning more about quackery thanks

366
00:15:58,730 --> 00:15:58,030
Trish that gives me something good to

367
00:16:15,180 --> 00:15:58,740
think about

368
00:16:19,389 --> 00:16:17,740
psychic detective psychic detectives

369
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:19,399
that some degrees discuss more

370
00:16:22,780 --> 00:16:21,050
frequently on the skeptics and I'm with

371
00:16:24,820 --> 00:16:22,790
Ben Redford once again hello Ben hello

372
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:24,830
hello thank you for joining me here in

373
00:16:29,079 --> 00:16:27,890
your studios for this segment on psychic

374
00:16:30,370 --> 00:16:29,089
detectives and this time we're going to

375
00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:30,380
look back and I'm going to pick your

376
00:16:34,630 --> 00:16:32,660
brains a little bit into the history of

377
00:16:36,940 --> 00:16:34,640
psychic detectives I mean there are the

378
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:36,950
current crop in Australia where I can

379
00:16:40,090 --> 00:16:38,510
think of Debbie Malone is the most

380
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:40,100
prominent at the moment of and she has

381
00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:41,450
been for a while of people who think

382
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:43,870
they have psychic powers or whatever and

383
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:46,880
in this country it was Sylvia Browne

384
00:16:51,550 --> 00:16:49,730
going around big mouthing herself as a

385
00:16:54,850 --> 00:16:51,560
psychic today yeah it's interesting I

386
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:54,860
mean from my from my research you know

387
00:17:00,070 --> 00:16:58,399
depending on on how formal you consider

388
00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:00,080
psychic detectives to be so for example

389
00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:03,980
the Ouija board of course you know was

390
00:17:09,549 --> 00:17:06,470
very popular and it was used during

391
00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:09,559
during world wars too for people to try

392
00:17:14,829 --> 00:17:12,500
and contact the people overseas in many

393
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:14,839
cases people would buy Wiggy boards with

394
00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:16,910
the idea that they would you know be

395
00:17:20,650 --> 00:17:18,260
communicating because they of course

396
00:17:23,260 --> 00:17:20,660
this is before mass communication so

397
00:17:24,340 --> 00:17:23,270
their loved ones would be overseas and

398
00:17:26,169 --> 00:17:24,350
they wouldn't know if they live or they

399
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:26,179
dead I mean it could take weeks to hear

400
00:17:30,669 --> 00:17:28,880
back and so in a way you could look at

401
00:17:32,169 --> 00:17:30,679
them I mean didn't claim to be psychic

402
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:32,179
but they believe the board was psychic

403
00:17:37,060 --> 00:17:34,730
the spirit board and so you can sort of

404
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:37,070
go back and and look at that as being an

405
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,720
early version of psychic detectives but

406
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,880
again that's it's it's it's it's a bit

407
00:17:44,650 --> 00:17:42,080
different because they're not people who

408
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:44,660
are making their living on it yeah any

409
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:46,730
of course you had the spiritualists all

410
00:17:49,780 --> 00:17:48,530
the people who would go around and do

411
00:17:52,270 --> 00:17:49,790
their do their shows and their

412
00:17:53,919 --> 00:17:52,280
productions in some cases of course

413
00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:53,929
claiming to communicate with the dead

414
00:17:58,960 --> 00:17:56,120
you had people like William mom lore the

415
00:18:01,210 --> 00:17:58,970
photographer who would although not

416
00:18:03,790 --> 00:18:01,220
claimed to be psychic themselves would

417
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:03,800
offer to do spirit photographs in a

418
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:06,710
sense put people in photographs and in

419
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:09,650
communication with them but in terms of

420
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:12,320
like the modern psychic detectives

421
00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:16,160
there's Noreen Renier very famous Sylvia

422
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:18,760
Browne a lot for a lot of them it was

423
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:22,610
sort of a side job where where they had

424
00:18:26,649 --> 00:18:24,650
built up a reputation as being psychic

425
00:18:29,379 --> 00:18:26,659
anyway and as part

426
00:18:31,659 --> 00:18:29,389
that they would they would go in and you

427
00:18:33,450 --> 00:18:31,669
know inject themselves into high-profile

428
00:18:35,889 --> 00:18:33,460
cases well if we thinking in the last

429
00:18:37,269 --> 00:18:35,899
over ten years ago it was Allison Dubois

430
00:18:39,339 --> 00:18:37,279
well yes and you don't hear much about

431
00:18:41,589 --> 00:18:39,349
her anymore I don't think no I mean

432
00:18:44,139 --> 00:18:41,599
she's you know she's she's still around

433
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:44,149
someone the the the they don't go away

434
00:18:49,299 --> 00:18:47,330
yes you know at the the the sort of do

435
00:18:51,129 --> 00:18:49,309
second-tier stuff you know of James Van

436
00:18:54,430 --> 00:18:51,139
Praagh you still around somewhere John

437
00:18:56,769 --> 00:18:54,440
Edward is still the rubber duck syndrome

438
00:18:58,450 --> 00:18:56,779
he's still bouncing around I think last

439
00:19:01,060 --> 00:18:58,460
I heard I think you said he's he's

440
00:19:03,609 --> 00:19:01,070
visiting Australia yes yes he's John

441
00:19:05,499 --> 00:19:03,619
Edward has his Australian run which he's

442
00:19:07,749 --> 00:19:05,509
been doing now for over well over a

443
00:19:10,029 --> 00:19:07,759
decade where he'll turn up about this

444
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:10,039
time of the year well you know mid mid

445
00:19:14,889 --> 00:19:12,289
year in Australia where it's winter and

446
00:19:17,499 --> 00:19:14,899
he'll do about a week's worth of

447
00:19:20,289 --> 00:19:17,509
publicity for his tour in normally

448
00:19:21,879 --> 00:19:20,299
November so he'll go straight on to the

449
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:21,889
chat shows straight into the radio

450
00:19:27,249 --> 00:19:24,320
studio the producers welcomed him with

451
00:19:29,499 --> 00:19:27,259
open arms because they know people will

452
00:19:31,149 --> 00:19:29,509
listen and people will watch works well

453
00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:31,159
for John Edward he gets his pre

454
00:19:35,739 --> 00:19:33,289
publicity now if he will get interested

455
00:19:38,169 --> 00:19:35,749
six months later he turns up and does

456
00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:38,179
his live shows six months after that he

457
00:19:43,749 --> 00:19:40,700
comes again the following year and does

458
00:19:46,899 --> 00:19:43,759
it all over again year after year after

459
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,909
year and it really doesn't matter much

460
00:19:52,269 --> 00:19:48,320
what the skeptics say well you know I

461
00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:52,279
can tell you that I had Celestia Ward my

462
00:19:55,479 --> 00:19:53,809
co-host on scoring strange and I we had

463
00:19:58,450 --> 00:19:55,489
gone undercover to one of his shows

464
00:20:00,430 --> 00:19:58,460
about two three years ago and I was

465
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:00,440
pleasantly surprised at how small his

466
00:20:06,849 --> 00:20:04,940
audience was it was a local hotel and I

467
00:20:08,619 --> 00:20:06,859
I didn't know what to expect I hadn't

468
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,629
been I'd been to other psychic readings

469
00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:10,159
but not not not recently and certain

470
00:20:14,019 --> 00:20:12,769
that John Edward but when I went in

471
00:20:16,539 --> 00:20:14,029
there I mean there were a couple hundred

472
00:20:18,849 --> 00:20:16,549
people but there weren't thousands and

473
00:20:22,719 --> 00:20:18,859
it was it was interesting and slightly

474
00:20:24,999 --> 00:20:22,729
pleasing to me well well I mean he's he

475
00:20:27,210 --> 00:20:25,009
isn't what he was because he's big days

476
00:20:30,940 --> 00:20:27,220
are over with just regular icing over

477
00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:30,950
yeah although that still carries him a

478
00:20:33,549 --> 00:20:31,580
lot

479
00:20:35,409 --> 00:20:33,559
oh yeah see you know the TV psychic or

480
00:20:36,999 --> 00:20:35,419
what right and of course like all of

481
00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:37,009
them he can simply make claims which

482
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:40,440
can't be instantly to fact-check that

483
00:20:43,550 --> 00:20:42,210
the moment and a classic example of

484
00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:43,560
jonad when i know we're straying from

485
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:45,240
the point folks but that's alright it's

486
00:20:49,070 --> 00:20:45,870
my show

487
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:49,080
a classic example and and I was just

488
00:20:55,550 --> 00:20:50,910
discussing this with you yesterday in

489
00:20:58,490 --> 00:20:55,560
fact that and my memory fails me I don't

490
00:21:01,910 --> 00:20:58,500
remember if I soared on a TV clip or if

491
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:01,920
he said this during an ad break on a

492
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:04,710
show years ago when I was in the

493
00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:07,770
audience this was a show called mornings

494
00:21:13,580 --> 00:21:10,620
with Carrie Anne morning chat show hmm

495
00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:13,590
in Australia it defunct now and John

496
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:14,940
Edward was the guest and you know

497
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,010
welcomed with open arms and it's quite

498
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:19,440
possible during an ad break chatting -

499
00:21:24,110 --> 00:21:21,450
Keriann he said something along the

500
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:24,120
lines of when I flew over here oh no I

501
00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:26,130
was waiting backstage in the monitor was

502
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:28,590
flickering in the greenroom all that

503
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:29,910
happens all the time you know when I'm

504
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:32,310
on airplanes things flat flicker and go

505
00:21:36,620 --> 00:21:34,740
wrong because of the low delicious

506
00:21:40,610 --> 00:21:36,630
glitches obviously because of his

507
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,620
enormous psyche could be obviously yeah

508
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:42,360
like I'm going to get on a plane with

509
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:44,010
somebody who can affect the electronics

510
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:48,180
with a plane right if you really think

511
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:50,370
that the furry Yeller can bend metal

512
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,740
with his mind any other less power

513
00:21:56,690 --> 00:21:54,240
I don't want to be on a plane with that

514
00:21:58,550 --> 00:21:56,700
yeah that's not what are you intending

515
00:22:00,350 --> 00:21:58,560
to her not Frollo who's gonna bend a

516
00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:00,360
wing and we're all going down yeah and

517
00:22:04,820 --> 00:22:03,390
then it's it's it's the the classic

518
00:22:06,650 --> 00:22:04,830
people can make these claims and

519
00:22:09,230 --> 00:22:06,660
statements and people really that's

520
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:09,240
amazing like Allison Dubois I was in

521
00:22:13,490 --> 00:22:11,460
another another time I think I was in

522
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:13,500
the audience or sort of on TV again my

523
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:16,020
memory fails me and she made this claim

524
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:17,970
she said her daughter is psychic - or

525
00:22:21,170 --> 00:22:19,770
really that said the host yeah my

526
00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:21,180
daughter can get a shuffled deck of

527
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:23,460
cards and she knows what each card is

528
00:22:26,090 --> 00:22:25,530
before she flips it over ah that's

529
00:22:30,170 --> 00:22:26,100
amazing

530
00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:30,180
wow that's really here to demonstrate

531
00:22:35,330 --> 00:22:32,820
this you do tell always there's video of

532
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:35,340
this I hope yeah yeah so people can make

533
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:36,930
all these amazing claims and it's just

534
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:38,730
taken of course yeah that's what the

535
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:41,970
psychic says anyway we sort of varied V

536
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:44,250
it off a little bit from our topic I

537
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:47,010
want to now read out which is a little

538
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:50,490
pre-recorded clip a clip a report from

539
00:22:54,030 --> 00:22:52,530
the Australian Woman's Weekly going back

540
00:22:57,580 --> 00:22:54,040
to 90

541
00:23:00,190 --> 00:22:57,590
35:35 1935 and it's on the topic of

542
00:23:02,650 --> 00:23:00,200
psychic detectives I wouldn't have

543
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:02,660
expected I would have thought that

544
00:23:07,030 --> 00:23:04,970
psychic detectives per se were a much

545
00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:07,040
more recent phenomenon I'm surprised it

546
00:23:10,450 --> 00:23:07,700
goes back that far

547
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:10,460
me too let's have a listen

548
00:23:17,070 --> 00:23:14,890
[Music]

549
00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:17,080
now last week we brought you a report

550
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:18,520
from the Australian Woman's Weekly

551
00:23:26,180 --> 00:23:23,890
dating back to 1977 about ESP also on

552
00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:26,190
last week's show we covered the topic of

553
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:30,940
psychic detectives and this prompted me

554
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:33,130
to do a further search in the archives

555
00:23:41,060 --> 00:23:35,290
of the Australian Woman's Weekly and I

556
00:23:54,629 --> 00:23:45,950
1935 in the 26th of January issue

557
00:24:05,980 --> 00:23:57,970
Albury and in verloc tragedies attract

558
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:05,990
clairvoyance and seers every unsolved

559
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:08,000
murder brings to light a crop of

560
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:10,970
clairvoyance teacup breeders dreamers

561
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:14,330
astrologers and so forth who claim to

562
00:24:19,210 --> 00:24:16,570
have gained through occult powers

563
00:24:21,970 --> 00:24:19,220
possession of clues which unravel the

564
00:24:25,690 --> 00:24:21,980
mystery the police department is

565
00:24:28,110 --> 00:24:25,700
inundated with letters from it's

566
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:28,120
wonderful how they keep coming in a

567
00:24:32,590 --> 00:24:30,529
detective sergeant of long experience in

568
00:24:34,389 --> 00:24:32,600
murder cases told the Australian Woman's

569
00:24:37,539 --> 00:24:34,399
Weekly because the writers are not

570
00:24:40,570 --> 00:24:37,549
encouraged and in no single instance

571
00:24:42,999 --> 00:24:40,580
known to me as anything of value come

572
00:24:45,070 --> 00:24:43,009
from them for nearly five months the

573
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:45,080
police of Victoria and New South Wales

574
00:24:49,899 --> 00:24:46,960
have been receiving letters from

575
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:49,909
clairvoyance in reference to the Albury

576
00:24:55,810 --> 00:24:52,159
murder at the beginning of August last

577
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:55,820
year and that would have been 1934 some

578
00:25:01,450 --> 00:24:58,129
of these letters from persons who

579
00:25:04,409 --> 00:25:01,460
profess while in a state of sleep or

580
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:04,419
coma to have seen the crime committed

581
00:25:09,869 --> 00:25:07,279
there have been descriptions forwarded

582
00:25:13,570 --> 00:25:09,879
to the police of the person or persons

583
00:25:16,690 --> 00:25:13,580
alleged to have been seen by the writers

584
00:25:19,690 --> 00:25:16,700
disposing of the body of the unknown

585
00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:19,700
girl another crop of clairvoyance has

586
00:25:24,399 --> 00:25:21,950
come to light as a result of the invar

587
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:24,409
Lough tragedy in Victoria in the first

588
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:27,049
week of January a girl of 12 was

589
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:29,690
spirited away from a picnic party and

590
00:25:36,669 --> 00:25:33,200
done to death efforts to find the Slayer

591
00:25:38,889 --> 00:25:36,679
have so far been unavailing but a weird

592
00:25:41,889 --> 00:25:38,899
assortment of letters has reached the

593
00:25:45,009 --> 00:25:41,899
victorian authorities some tendering

594
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:45,019
advice some professing to describe the

595
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:48,559
killer some giving the locality where he

596
00:25:52,539 --> 00:25:49,840
is to be found

597
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:52,549
Australian detectives are hard-headed

598
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:54,950
men who have neither the time nor the

599
00:26:00,730 --> 00:25:58,250
inclination for chasing chimeras but no

600
00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:00,740
letter in relation to crime goes unread

601
00:26:06,369 --> 00:26:03,740
no matter how fantastic the statements

602
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:06,379
there is always the chance of something

603
00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:07,910
actually emerging

604
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:11,750
and astrologers prediction one of the

605
00:26:18,030 --> 00:26:13,610
letters received by the Victorian police

606
00:26:19,270 --> 00:26:18,040
came from a mr. e V seepin a professed

607
00:26:21,850 --> 00:26:19,280
astrologist

608
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:21,860
he has lately been elected president of

609
00:26:26,590 --> 00:26:24,650
the astrological Society of Australia in

610
00:26:29,230 --> 00:26:26,600
December last he wrote an article in

611
00:26:32,050 --> 00:26:29,240
which he predicted a mysterious crime

612
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:32,060
against a child in early January the

613
00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:34,610
crime has been committed and it must

614
00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:36,950
have seemed to mister sapin as a good

615
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:39,790
astrologist that he should probe further

616
00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:42,410
last week he forwarded to the Victorian

617
00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:44,630
police a description of the slayer of

618
00:26:51,340 --> 00:26:47,870
the girl the description was compiled

619
00:26:53,770 --> 00:26:51,350
from the dead girl's birth chart here is

620
00:26:56,290 --> 00:26:53,780
the description as it appeared in the

621
00:26:59,620 --> 00:26:56,300
Melbourne and Sydney newspapers medium

622
00:27:04,390 --> 00:26:59,630
height straight-backed long thin face

623
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:04,400
high forehead long nose thick brown or

624
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:07,610
black hair the above details are precise

625
00:27:15,550 --> 00:27:11,930
it is added that the murderer may be

626
00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:15,560
suave and he may have long arms and

627
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:20,140
hands and may be a man whose most solemn

628
00:27:25,420 --> 00:27:23,510
protestations cannot be believed the

629
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:25,430
whole of Australia was stirred by what

630
00:27:32,740 --> 00:27:29,360
was known as the Hornsby murder in 1919

631
00:27:34,930 --> 00:27:32,750
a bank official was killed in a train

632
00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:34,940
proceeding from Sydney to Hornsby and

633
00:27:41,890 --> 00:27:38,360
the Slayer was never brought to book and

634
00:27:45,940 --> 00:27:41,900
as an aside Hornsby is a far north

635
00:27:49,030 --> 00:27:45,950
suburb of Sydney we read on but quite a

636
00:27:52,450 --> 00:27:49,040
number of clairvoyants professed to have

637
00:27:54,670 --> 00:27:52,460
seen him a photograph of the hammer with

638
00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:54,680
which the deed was supposed to have been

639
00:27:59,020 --> 00:27:57,200
committed appeared in the papers and a

640
00:28:02,260 --> 00:27:59,030
clairvoyant wrote to the police to say

641
00:28:05,550 --> 00:28:02,270
that he had seen this hammer transmuted

642
00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:05,560
into a likeness of the murderers face

643
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:11,590
tea lovers - only a few days ago a

644
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:14,690
detective informed us a woman asked me

645
00:28:19,390 --> 00:28:17,210
if she could see the body of the aubrey

646
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:19,400
girl whose identity we are trying to

647
00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:21,530
establish i asked her

648
00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:24,200
reason she said if she could see the

649
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:26,840
girl's face she would be able to help

650
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:30,370
the search by consulting tea leaves

651
00:28:34,970 --> 00:28:33,770
needless to say I told her she need not

652
00:28:42,740 --> 00:28:34,980
bother

653
00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:45,200
and that was stargazers who want to

654
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:47,220
solve crimes published in The Australian

655
00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:50,450
Woman's Weekly on the 26th of January

656
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:54,750
1935 and it certainly goes to show that

657
00:29:00,080 --> 00:28:56,970
the police and other authorities have

658
00:29:02,510 --> 00:29:00,090
been played by the so-called psychics

659
00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:02,520
for decades and decades probably well

660
00:29:09,140 --> 00:29:05,880
over a hundred years insofar as the

661
00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:09,150
story talks about the Albury murder it

662
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:11,900
seems that this in fact was the case of

663
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:16,860
Linda Agostini very famously known in

664
00:29:22,190 --> 00:29:19,200
the annals of Australian crime as The

665
00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:22,200
Pajama girl because she was discovered

666
00:29:28,940 --> 00:29:26,070
wearing her set of Chinese style pajamas

667
00:29:30,530 --> 00:29:28,950
but it took over ten years for her

668
00:29:32,420 --> 00:29:30,540
killer to be brought to justice and that

669
00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:32,430
turned out to be her husband Tony

670
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:34,980
Agostini who was convicted of the murder

671
00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:37,530
or manslaughter as it happened served

672
00:29:42,650 --> 00:29:39,630
some years in prison and then was

673
00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:42,660
deported back to Italy the investigation

674
00:29:48,250 --> 00:29:45,480
revolved around dental records and the

675
00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:48,260
body being on view to the public

676
00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:50,870
it wasn't straightforward the police

677
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:53,820
apparently bungled it somewhat by miss

678
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:56,880
counting the number of fillings as

679
00:30:02,000 --> 00:29:58,770
compared to dental records but

680
00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:02,010
eventually the case was solved but you

681
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:03,870
can read the original report for

682
00:30:08,540 --> 00:30:06,330
yourself in the pages of the Australian

683
00:30:13,399 --> 00:30:08,550
Woman's Weekly and I'll certainly add a

684
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:15,839
so there you go been all the way back to

685
00:30:22,649 --> 00:30:20,080
1935 and it's interesting stargazers who

686
00:30:25,229 --> 00:30:22,659
want to solve crimes and that the term

687
00:30:27,149 --> 00:30:25,239
psychic detective wasn't you know yeah

688
00:30:30,259 --> 00:30:27,159
it really wasn't born then yet or used

689
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:30,269
or whatever and I love this term

690
00:30:37,169 --> 00:30:33,129
clairvoyance is an old term seers let's

691
00:30:39,749 --> 00:30:37,179
see is a very popular term until a

692
00:30:43,289 --> 00:30:39,759
couple of decades ago the word seer

693
00:30:45,180 --> 00:30:43,299
mmm-hmm instead of psychic because when

694
00:30:47,219 --> 00:30:45,190
we look at the case of the Beaumont

695
00:30:49,649 --> 00:30:47,229
children from 1966 and the Dutch

696
00:30:53,239 --> 00:30:49,659
clairvoyant who came out he was widely

697
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:53,249
billed as a seer they could see things

698
00:31:00,419 --> 00:30:57,279
it's it's a little more biblical and

699
00:31:01,710 --> 00:31:00,429
respectable somehow and of course you

700
00:31:03,479 --> 00:31:01,720
know one as you know one of the things

701
00:31:06,029 --> 00:31:03,489
they've done recently over the past I

702
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:06,039
would say 10 or 20 years is they've

703
00:31:11,879 --> 00:31:09,369
moved towards intuitive yes I've heard

704
00:31:14,999 --> 00:31:11,889
yeah so I'm not psychic I'm I'm

705
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:15,009
intuitive yeah okay but it's like uri

706
00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:16,769
geller who calls himself a mystifying

707
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:20,440
right I'm a mister fire okay

708
00:31:25,109 --> 00:31:23,200
okay it's old wine in new bottles and

709
00:31:26,219 --> 00:31:25,119
that's and that that's one as you know

710
00:31:28,739 --> 00:31:26,229
that's one thing that happens is that

711
00:31:31,099 --> 00:31:28,749
they repackage themselves however is

712
00:31:33,180 --> 00:31:31,109
going to benefit that so if 20 years ago

713
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:33,190
psychics were big and they were more

714
00:31:37,619 --> 00:31:34,210
acceptable than they call themselves

715
00:31:39,930 --> 00:31:37,629
psychic if if next year they're mediums

716
00:31:42,029 --> 00:31:39,940
or intuitive me hey yeah there you go

717
00:31:44,129 --> 00:31:42,039
there's lots of terms and speaking of

718
00:31:46,139 --> 00:31:44,139
you together and again we just diverge a

719
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:46,149
little bit but that's fine you and I

720
00:31:50,339 --> 00:31:48,129
last night we'd laughing ourselves silly

721
00:31:54,450 --> 00:31:50,349
because we were watching a video I

722
00:31:58,469 --> 00:31:54,460
brought you from my archive mind bender

723
00:32:00,719 --> 00:31:58,479
from 1996 I think we discovered yes i

724
00:32:03,930 --> 00:32:00,729
lowering Terence Stamp

725
00:32:07,049 --> 00:32:03,940
I I was gobsmacked yeah and the story of

726
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:07,059
a uri geller the presumably true story

727
00:32:12,930 --> 00:32:10,570
very go directed by Ken Russell oh it

728
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:12,940
was it was extraordinary

729
00:32:19,109 --> 00:32:15,820
it was excruciating was mind-bending it

730
00:32:23,099 --> 00:32:19,119
was I I was I

731
00:32:24,869 --> 00:32:23,109
III at first I speechless no I don't it

732
00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:24,879
was the strangest things I'd never see

733
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,920
I'd never heard of this thing

734
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:28,080
fortify it and then so he pulls this

735
00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:30,170
thing up and I'm watching this I'm like

736
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:34,260
good god what is this and it's this

737
00:32:39,050 --> 00:32:36,690
again it's this like it's like something

738
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:39,060
dolly would have done it's just the I

739
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:42,270
was I was I it's not something that I

740
00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:45,690
would have yeah yeah it is extraordinary

741
00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:48,420
and at the very end there's there's

742
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:50,760
Geller himself and he walks out on the

743
00:32:55,490 --> 00:32:53,250
stage and he's encouraging us all to

744
00:32:58,670 --> 00:32:55,500
what are the watches of course yes of

745
00:33:02,000 --> 00:32:58,680
course the watches out at home now this

746
00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:02,010
is the part we both cracked up give it

747
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:04,020
you know hold your watches it's a broken

748
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:05,970
watch hold your watch look if it's got a

749
00:33:13,730 --> 00:33:11,610
winding handle wind it up okay like did

750
00:33:17,180 --> 00:33:13,740
he just can we rewind that did he just

751
00:33:20,030 --> 00:33:17,190
say - why'd your watch and shake it

752
00:33:24,260 --> 00:33:20,040
around and if it starts ticking clearly

753
00:33:26,660 --> 00:33:24,270
my psychic power like wow okay then

754
00:33:28,850 --> 00:33:26,670
thanks Ken Russell that's it yeah I

755
00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:28,860
don't know folks if you can ever get a

756
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:30,870
chance to see it maybe I wouldn't advise

757
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:33,570
you to or you know just really bad it's

758
00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:35,250
really bad I mean apart from anything

759
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:37,710
else apart from it painting uri geller

760
00:33:41,630 --> 00:33:39,690
in this fantastic like and he's driving

761
00:33:43,780 --> 00:33:41,640
a Jeep with a hell of a ton so he can't

762
00:33:46,550 --> 00:33:43,790
see but he's getting so oh yes no and

763
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,560
just just just to be clear about the the

764
00:33:52,010 --> 00:33:48,000
point of the film the point of the film

765
00:33:52,610 --> 00:33:52,020
is that we Geller single-handedly saved

766
00:33:55,550 --> 00:33:52,620
the world

767
00:33:58,190 --> 00:33:55,560
oh yes yes at the end of it no spoilers

768
00:34:00,380 --> 00:33:58,200
here at the end of the show you we see

769
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:00,390
him that there there's nuclear missiles

770
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:02,970
being launched from China apparently the

771
00:34:09,740 --> 00:34:07,170
probably like and and he uses the power

772
00:34:12,580 --> 00:34:09,750
of his mind to destroy nuclear missile

773
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:12,590
thereby bringing about world peace and

774
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:16,110
we just we're so grateful and now we can

775
00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:18,240
start our watches right it's just um

776
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:20,520
anyway it was it was it was so funny to

777
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:24,090
watch that with you I'd seen it 10 12

778
00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:26,730
years ago and I'd forgotten how truly

779
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:29,220
appalling ly awful it is in in all

780
00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:32,040
regards the production values the acting

781
00:34:38,630 --> 00:34:35,940
yeah just really across the board it is

782
00:34:39,590 --> 00:34:38,640
abysmal but in its it's so wretched in

783
00:34:43,130 --> 00:34:39,600
its own way

784
00:34:45,740 --> 00:34:43,140
it's like a train wreck Wow okay then

785
00:34:48,380 --> 00:34:45,750
with music by Elton John Elton John

786
00:34:50,150 --> 00:34:48,390
dream sequences I mean this is this is

787
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:50,160
right for a mystery science treat that

788
00:34:54,380 --> 00:34:53,010
3000 drubbing I think they sure feel it

789
00:34:56,570 --> 00:34:54,390
I think they should do it mind bender

790
00:34:58,010 --> 00:34:56,580
folks that's the name of the movie well

791
00:34:59,810 --> 00:34:58,020
we certainly veered a lot from our

792
00:35:02,210 --> 00:34:59,820
original point which was about circuit

793
00:35:04,010 --> 00:35:02,220
detectives yes it's great to chat with

794
00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:04,020
you Ben because we certainly have a lot

795
00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:06,150
of common knowledge I mean we have our

796
00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:09,030
own special fields of course as you know

797
00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:10,980
because I just told you I'll be giving a

798
00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:12,900
talk on psychic detectives coming up at

799
00:35:16,850 --> 00:35:13,500
DragonCon

800
00:35:18,290 --> 00:35:16,860
later in August so I'm looking forward

801
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:18,300
to that and folks if you come to Dragon

802
00:35:22,340 --> 00:35:20,730
Con I'd love to see you there Ben again

803
00:35:24,020 --> 00:35:22,350
I'll just chat to you at the end of show

804
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:24,030
we can tell the folks about our Chile

805
00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:26,640
experience yes but for now thank you

806
00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:28,680
very much for taking part in the skeptic

807
00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:46,320
[Music]

808
00:35:51,810 --> 00:35:48,950
Australian skeptics present skeptics in

809
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:51,820
the pub with dr. Karl cruising whiskey

810
00:36:06,460 --> 00:36:02,710
Thursday the 4th of July from 6 p.m. at

811
00:36:11,020 --> 00:36:06,470
the Occidental hotel 43 York Street

812
00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:11,030
Sydney we will be having a special Q&A

813
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:13,600
session with dr. Karl cruising whiskey

814
00:36:18,850 --> 00:36:16,130
one of Australia's leading science

815
00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:18,860
communicators come along have fun bring

816
00:36:26,890 --> 00:36:23,870
your questions on any topic bookings are

817
00:36:32,860 --> 00:36:26,900
essential it's only $10 per person to

818
00:36:35,350 --> 00:36:32,870
cover costs so that's ask dr. Karl at

819
00:36:38,350 --> 00:36:35,360
Sydney's skeptics in the pub Thursday

820
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:38,360
the 4th of July from 6 p.m. and you can

821
00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:40,370
book by following the link in this

822
00:37:00,050 --> 00:36:41,790
week's show notes

823
00:37:02,670 --> 00:37:00,060
[Music]

824
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:02,680
hello skeptic zone listeners this is

825
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:05,710
susan gerbic and i am live from what

826
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:08,079
city are we in today we're in Los

827
00:37:17,630 --> 00:37:11,530
Angeles California and I am at howdy con

828
00:37:19,859 --> 00:37:17,640
which is a festival of ex Scientology

829
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:19,869
aficionados I guess is what we would

830
00:37:25,460 --> 00:37:21,910
call them these are people who have met

831
00:37:27,809 --> 00:37:25,470
on Tony Ortega's underground bunker blog

832
00:37:29,339 --> 00:37:27,819
they get together they think this is

833
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:29,349
their third one the first time in

834
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:32,079
California fourth one in this is the

835
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:33,609
first time in California had been in

836
00:37:38,460 --> 00:37:36,250
Chicago and I'm Lynn and in Cleveland

837
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:38,470
and Denver and this happens to be just

838
00:37:42,059 --> 00:37:39,910
about an hour from where I'm at so I

839
00:37:44,190 --> 00:37:42,069
thought I'd come by and meet Tony Ortega

840
00:37:46,260 --> 00:37:44,200
in person I'm hoping you're going to

841
00:37:49,470 --> 00:37:46,270
enjoy this a little bit of back and

842
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:49,480
forth he has the underground bunker blog

843
00:37:55,020 --> 00:37:52,300
which is essential reading every morning

844
00:37:58,440 --> 00:37:55,030
for me it's all Scientology news and

845
00:38:02,040 --> 00:37:58,450
he's recently been covering the court

846
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:02,050
case of Nexium which was fascinating to

847
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:04,210
listen to so hi Tony

848
00:38:08,849 --> 00:38:06,430
Susan it's so good to get together with

849
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:08,859
you I love the work you do with skeptics

850
00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:10,569
and what I want to say the skeptics in

851
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:12,990
general is Scientology's King

852
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:15,130
Scientology is the king of suited

853
00:38:18,540 --> 00:38:16,569
pseudoscience I don't want to hear any

854
00:38:22,650 --> 00:38:18,550
arguments Scientology is the absolute

855
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,660
peak and pinnacle of nonsense and hooey

856
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,880
and that's why skeptics should be

857
00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:26,640
reading the underground bunker

858
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:29,950
absolutely as I say I read it every

859
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:32,050
morning when it comes out into my

860
00:38:37,410 --> 00:38:34,810
newsfeed and I'm glued to it and the

861
00:38:39,180 --> 00:38:37,420
next cm trial was so interesting if you

862
00:38:42,270 --> 00:38:39,190
guys don't know what that is it spelled

863
00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:42,280
Howe and XIV M and the reason I branched

864
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,640
out to that recently was you know people

865
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:47,440
who watch that I call them Scientology

866
00:38:50,250 --> 00:38:48,970
Watchers the people who read my some of

867
00:38:51,089 --> 00:38:50,260
them are excited to all just as you

868
00:38:53,249 --> 00:38:51,099
point out but a lot of the

869
00:38:55,049 --> 00:38:53,259
aren't were all Scientology watchers and

870
00:38:56,849 --> 00:38:55,059
what we're waiting for is for the

871
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:56,859
government to step in and do some kind

872
00:39:00,779 --> 00:38:58,960
of investigation or even prosecution of

873
00:39:02,339 --> 00:39:00,789
Scientology because of its beauty abuses

874
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:02,349
the reason why I branched out to

875
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:04,960
next-gen was the government actually was

876
00:39:08,430 --> 00:39:06,729
doing something about nexium and they

877
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:08,440
were prosecuting these people and I

878
00:39:12,059 --> 00:39:10,630
wanted to see what that was like is you

879
00:39:14,430 --> 00:39:12,069
know hopefully a dry run for what

880
00:39:15,690 --> 00:39:14,440
happens in Scientology someday so we

881
00:39:17,039 --> 00:39:15,700
covered it very carefully I have a

882
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:17,049
wonderful correspondent named Diane

883
00:39:20,430 --> 00:39:18,880
Lipson she was at the court every day

884
00:39:22,499 --> 00:39:20,440
giving me wonderful reports on the

885
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:22,509
testimony and I just think it was a

886
00:39:26,969 --> 00:39:24,640
wonderful experience in reporting and

887
00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:26,979
and learning more about another high

888
00:39:31,049 --> 00:39:28,900
control group that treats people in just

889
00:39:32,489 --> 00:39:31,059
absolutely bizarre ways there was a lot

890
00:39:34,289 --> 00:39:32,499
of similarities between that and

891
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:34,299
Scientology is at least as far as

892
00:39:41,219 --> 00:39:38,650
control the the followers all of these

893
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:41,229
groups use the same techniques they all

894
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:42,960
use the same ways of controlling people

895
00:39:47,849 --> 00:39:44,680
limiting their own access to outside

896
00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:47,859
ideas and not in specifically in neck

897
00:39:51,779 --> 00:39:49,180
Sims case Keith's Ranieri

898
00:39:53,609 --> 00:39:51,789
had stolen a lot of ideas from

899
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:53,619
Scientology even using the same

900
00:39:58,529 --> 00:39:56,410
vocabulary the big difference the reason

901
00:39:59,819 --> 00:39:58,539
why people ask me if they can prosecute

902
00:40:01,769 --> 00:39:59,829
Keith we're nearing why can't they

903
00:40:04,499 --> 00:40:01,779
Crosby Scientology the big difference

904
00:40:06,509 --> 00:40:04,509
between the two was that next team never

905
00:40:08,729 --> 00:40:06,519
called itself a church and never got

906
00:40:10,049 --> 00:40:08,739
itself taxes and status so it was a

907
00:40:11,729 --> 00:40:10,059
little easier for the government to

908
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,739
investigate but you know even with

909
00:40:16,739 --> 00:40:13,599
nexium there were complaints made a law

910
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:16,749
enforcement for many many years but I

911
00:40:21,930 --> 00:40:18,400
think ultimately it was this news that

912
00:40:24,029 --> 00:40:21,940
leaked about women being branded this

913
00:40:25,859 --> 00:40:24,039
was a line crossed that I think

914
00:40:28,799 --> 00:40:25,869
government could no longer ignore and

915
00:40:32,489 --> 00:40:28,809
led directly to these up to these try to

916
00:40:34,109 --> 00:40:32,499
strongly absolutely and I think that one

917
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:34,119
of the other keys that really struck

918
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:37,089
with an axiom trial was that was you

919
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:38,890
know not like you said the branding but

920
00:40:44,819 --> 00:40:40,960
the photos and there was also a child

921
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:44,829
pornography and just blatant control and

922
00:40:49,049 --> 00:40:46,450
this is all more recent

923
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:49,059
I mean nexium is is only right when from

924
00:40:53,759 --> 00:40:52,089
what what years it next has been a some

925
00:40:56,130 --> 00:40:53,769
version of Nexium has been around since

926
00:40:57,460 --> 00:40:56,140
the 90s but you know there had been some

927
00:40:59,540 --> 00:40:57,470
real

928
00:41:01,550 --> 00:40:59,550
reporting done about nexium and about

929
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:01,560
Rainier II and you would think maybe

930
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:03,570
they would dial things down but instead

931
00:41:07,940 --> 00:41:06,180
they ratcheted it up and they started

932
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:07,950
this thing called das in I don't know

933
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:11,130
2016 or something and if they called it

934
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:12,720
a sorority for women it was actually run

935
00:41:18,740 --> 00:41:15,510
by Ranieri it became this harem of sex

936
00:41:21,620 --> 00:41:18,750
slaves for him and in order to enforce

937
00:41:24,590 --> 00:41:21,630
their loyalty they were all required to

938
00:41:27,140 --> 00:41:24,600
turn in nude photographs of their of

939
00:41:29,450 --> 00:41:27,150
their genitals area I mean repeatedly I

940
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:29,460
mean every month and we just found out

941
00:41:32,060 --> 00:41:30,810
in the childís morning every time they

942
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:32,070
got together the first thing that these

943
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:33,330
women had to do was all stripped down

944
00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:35,520
take pictures for keys so you know this

945
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:36,420
was one of the things that made the

946
00:41:40,250 --> 00:41:38,370
trials so remarkable is these were

947
00:41:42,590 --> 00:41:40,260
successful

948
00:41:44,510 --> 00:41:42,600
you know accomplished women and yet they

949
00:41:47,060 --> 00:41:44,520
were subjecting themselves to this

950
00:41:48,410 --> 00:41:47,070
bizarre treatment by this guy who most

951
00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:48,420
people look at him and think this guy's

952
00:41:52,820 --> 00:41:51,540
a toad you know I you know I don't know

953
00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:52,830
you about you Susan but this is one

954
00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:54,150
thing that's so fascinating about these

955
00:41:59,210 --> 00:41:56,460
groups is that people seem to just give

956
00:42:01,850 --> 00:41:59,220
up all sort of rational thought any kind

957
00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:01,860
of personal integrity and we see in

958
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:03,540
Scientology as well and there were a lot

959
00:42:08,330 --> 00:42:05,810
of parallels between nexium Scientology

960
00:42:12,050 --> 00:42:08,340
people on Facebook when I shared the the

961
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:12,060
trial that the ending well we haven't

962
00:42:16,970 --> 00:42:14,480
seen the sentencing yet but the guilty

963
00:42:18,770 --> 00:42:16,980
verdict people were saying well how

964
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:18,780
could people fall for this and I keep

965
00:42:23,540 --> 00:42:20,880
saying that you know nobody signs on

966
00:42:25,970 --> 00:42:23,550
saying well first off some people are

967
00:42:27,830 --> 00:42:25,980
weeded out way at the beginning because

968
00:42:30,590 --> 00:42:27,840
they don't have the personality at that

969
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:30,600
moment the you know it's it's not for

970
00:42:36,860 --> 00:42:34,020
them at that moment or whatever and also

971
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:36,870
nobody signs in saying hey join our

972
00:42:39,950 --> 00:42:38,610
group it's actually a cult we're gonna

973
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:39,960
ask for your money and you're gonna get

974
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:43,050
branded in your genital area right it's

975
00:42:48,020 --> 00:42:44,520
and it's the same thing with Scientology

976
00:42:50,060 --> 00:42:48,030
is there's a lot of deception involved

977
00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:50,070
and people are told that their their

978
00:42:54,830 --> 00:42:52,260
communication is going to be improved by

979
00:42:59,120 --> 00:42:54,840
going through seminars it's presented as

980
00:43:01,580 --> 00:42:59,130
a self-help thing it's got the the sort

981
00:43:03,410 --> 00:43:01,590
of law so with the Hollywood celebrities

982
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:03,420
and everything how many people would

983
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:04,770
join Scientology if they were told up

984
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:06,210
front that ultimately you're going to be

985
00:43:10,850 --> 00:43:08,160
removing invisible alien Souls that are

986
00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:10,860
attached to your body at about $800 an

987
00:43:14,090 --> 00:43:12,660
hour and it's gonna cost you hundreds of

988
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:14,100
thousands of dollars I mean nobody would

989
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:16,380
join if they were upfront about what

990
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:19,410
they do and that's my main beef with

991
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:21,090
Scientology with any of these groups is

992
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:23,730
that they're so deceptive and lose all

993
00:43:27,020 --> 00:43:25,680
your family in the meantime right and

994
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:27,030
that's you know part of the control is

995
00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:29,970
if is if you know once you're completely

996
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:31,830
hooked in you need to remove everybody

997
00:43:35,450 --> 00:43:33,210
else in your life that's not hooked in

998
00:43:37,070 --> 00:43:35,460
and that's very common with with all of

999
00:43:38,510 --> 00:43:37,080
these groups but particularly

1000
00:43:40,130 --> 00:43:38,520
Scientology and it's called their

1001
00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:40,140
disconnection policy it's particularly

1002
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:42,420
cruel and we've been able to eat under

1003
00:43:46,070 --> 00:43:44,130
the GSO w project which everybody

1004
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:46,080
listening knows quite well what that's

1005
00:43:50,900 --> 00:43:49,200
about is has been able to contribute to

1006
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:50,910
a lot of the wikipedia pages on

1007
00:43:56,510 --> 00:43:53,250
Scientology some we've rewritten

1008
00:43:59,660 --> 00:43:56,520
completely and some we have just added

1009
00:44:02,300 --> 00:43:59,670
made additions to and I've used we have

1010
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:02,310
used Sony Ortega's blog many times on

1011
00:44:06,890 --> 00:44:04,260
Wikipedia pages which is really kind of

1012
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:06,900
fun because we rewrote Tony Ortega's

1013
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:10,290
Wikipedia page entirely and whenever

1014
00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:12,210
somebody has a really strong Wikipedia

1015
00:44:16,490 --> 00:44:13,950
page what happens is now they're able to

1016
00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:16,500
be cited on other wikipedia pages

1017
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:18,270
because they're a reputable source and

1018
00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:20,640
they're it's like they have journalistic

1019
00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:22,950
integrity and they're considered notable

1020
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:27,060
so this is our way of fighting back in

1021
00:44:31,460 --> 00:44:29,610
using the Wikipedia world because we

1022
00:44:33,140 --> 00:44:31,470
know that everybody does go to Wikipedia

1023
00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:33,150
and if they don't go there directly to

1024
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:35,880
the Wikipedia page to read it then media

1025
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:38,910
are picking up on the Wikipedia pages

1026
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:40,800
that are written and and the public is

1027
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:42,450
getting information we know hundreds of

1028
00:44:46,940 --> 00:44:44,850
thousands if not millions of views are

1029
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:46,950
coming to the wikipedia pages each year

1030
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:50,730
so we have to have these pages in great

1031
00:44:55,070 --> 00:44:52,410
shape otherwise people aren't getting it

1032
00:44:56,510 --> 00:44:55,080
as much education and then we also need

1033
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:56,520
to have the backs of people like Tony

1034
00:45:01,299 --> 00:44:58,130
Ortega and

1035
00:45:03,339 --> 00:45:01,309
his his popular blog the underground

1036
00:45:06,809 --> 00:45:03,349
bunker which is near and dear to my

1037
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:06,819
heart because I run the secret cabal so

1038
00:45:11,499 --> 00:45:09,650
it's kind of a fun name so what do you

1039
00:45:14,170 --> 00:45:11,509
think about Scientology it's been kind

1040
00:45:17,049 --> 00:45:14,180
of fun to watch more fun in my world

1041
00:45:21,069 --> 00:45:17,059
because I'm never in to see it kind of

1042
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:21,079
slowly imploding what do you think it's

1043
00:45:25,329 --> 00:45:23,119
been in trouble for a long time and

1044
00:45:27,759 --> 00:45:25,339
they're getting really desperate with

1045
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:27,769
the people that have left their having

1046
00:45:32,890 --> 00:45:30,319
staffing problems but David Miscavige

1047
00:45:35,259 --> 00:45:32,900
one of his chief jobs as his leader of

1048
00:45:37,569 --> 00:45:35,269
the organization is to always hand or

1049
00:45:40,660 --> 00:45:37,579
put on a show that things are well are

1050
00:45:42,190 --> 00:45:40,670
still fine for the big donors the big

1051
00:45:44,829 --> 00:45:42,200
donors need to be convinced that the

1052
00:45:46,690 --> 00:45:44,839
idea orgs are expanding that the the

1053
00:45:49,269 --> 00:45:46,700
coordination is growing so he puts on a

1054
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:49,279
show for them that nobody outside of

1055
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:51,200
Scientology buys for a minute they are

1056
00:45:54,759 --> 00:45:53,450
in big trouble but you know David

1057
00:45:56,170 --> 00:45:54,769
Miscavige really doesn't need that many

1058
00:46:00,670 --> 00:45:56,180
members he just needs those wealthy

1059
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:00,680
donors and so they have a huge slush

1060
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:03,170
fund so I don't know that I think he's I

1061
00:46:06,999 --> 00:46:04,910
think he will be able to keep going for

1062
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:07,009
quite a while in his present in the

1063
00:46:10,660 --> 00:46:09,440
present state that these new lawsuits

1064
00:46:12,219 --> 00:46:10,670
are very interesting I think they're

1065
00:46:14,620 --> 00:46:12,229
gonna be a big problem for Scientology

1066
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:14,630
but ultimately I don't think things

1067
00:46:18,789 --> 00:46:16,910
gonna significantly change until

1068
00:46:20,469 --> 00:46:18,799
government decides to do something and

1069
00:46:23,859 --> 00:46:20,479
there is something coming up there is a

1070
00:46:25,809 --> 00:46:23,869
court case a lawsuit against Miscavige

1071
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,819
right now right there is a legal dream

1072
00:46:29,439 --> 00:46:27,680
team that has come together and has

1073
00:46:31,180 --> 00:46:29,449
recruited a bunch of plaintiffs we've

1074
00:46:34,029 --> 00:46:31,190
seen the first lawsuit so far there are

1075
00:46:35,739 --> 00:46:34,039
many more coming some very fascinating

1076
00:46:36,939 --> 00:46:35,749
plaintiffs coming up I wish I could say

1077
00:46:38,799 --> 00:46:36,949
something I'll be able to see more in a

1078
00:46:39,969 --> 00:46:38,809
couple weeks some really interesting

1079
00:46:42,670 --> 00:46:39,979
people are gonna be suing the Church of

1080
00:46:44,799 --> 00:46:42,680
Scientology and this this team is

1081
00:46:46,959 --> 00:46:44,809
definitely drawing a line in the sand

1082
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:46,969
putting together a lot of plaintiffs

1083
00:46:51,489 --> 00:46:49,249
there's gonna be huge media coverage of

1084
00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:51,499
this it'll be on my website you can look

1085
00:46:55,809 --> 00:46:54,049
it up the the Scientology has dealt with

1086
00:46:58,420 --> 00:46:55,819
all these allegations in the past we

1087
00:47:00,459 --> 00:46:58,430
know the kind of solemn legal maneuvers

1088
00:47:02,140 --> 00:47:00,469
they they use so it's gonna be a

1089
00:47:03,969 --> 00:47:02,150
fascinating fight I mean you use that

1090
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:03,979
word before I mean we're not personally

1091
00:47:07,180 --> 00:47:05,839
invested where we'll just work as I'm

1092
00:47:09,370 --> 00:47:07,190
just a reporter

1093
00:47:10,810 --> 00:47:09,380
I report it whichever way it goes I'm

1094
00:47:12,250 --> 00:47:10,820
really fascinated but I know there are a

1095
00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:12,260
lot of ex members that have a lot

1096
00:47:16,780 --> 00:47:14,300
personally invested in these lawsuits

1097
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:16,790
they want to see Miscavige dragged into

1098
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:18,770
court in to pose they want to see the

1099
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:20,480
church punished and I think you know

1100
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:23,450
this first lawsuit was filed by a Jane

1101
00:47:27,490 --> 00:47:24,800
Doe they're calling her we know who it

1102
00:47:30,340 --> 00:47:27,500
is but she worked directly under

1103
00:47:32,830 --> 00:47:30,350
Miscavige she's got a very good she's

1104
00:47:34,690 --> 00:47:32,840
got very good grounds for de for

1105
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:34,700
bringing them into the case and deposing

1106
00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:36,410
him she named him as defendant now

1107
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:38,900
Miscavige did get out of a deposition in

1108
00:47:43,450 --> 00:47:41,690
Texas even after a judge okayed it but

1109
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:43,460
that that woman that was suing in that

1110
00:47:48,550 --> 00:47:45,890
case had a lot more tenuous connection

1111
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:48,560
to Miscavige but this woman who's suing

1112
00:47:53,770 --> 00:47:50,960
now she worked not only did she work for

1113
00:47:56,860 --> 00:47:53,780
him she was his personal steward and

1114
00:47:59,830 --> 00:47:56,870
worked in his personal quarters day and

1115
00:48:01,750 --> 00:47:59,840
night for three years this is gonna be

1116
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:01,760
so interesting you guys you have to

1117
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:04,850
subscribe to Toni Ortega's underground

1118
00:48:10,510 --> 00:48:07,310
bunker and you will just be drawn into

1119
00:48:12,490 --> 00:48:10,520
the the giant rabbit hole of Scientology

1120
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:12,500
watching and I've been doing this for

1121
00:48:17,230 --> 00:48:14,690
years and let me tell you I'm like now

1122
00:48:19,330 --> 00:48:17,240
I'm excited well I'm excited about

1123
00:48:21,790 --> 00:48:19,340
everything but it this is going to be so

1124
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:21,800
much fun so Toni real quick before we go

1125
00:48:26,260 --> 00:48:23,450
could you tell everybody the the names

1126
00:48:28,180 --> 00:48:26,270
of the books that you have written the

1127
00:48:30,570 --> 00:48:28,190
unbreakable miss lovely which is my book

1128
00:48:32,970 --> 00:48:30,580
about Paula Cooper a journalist who was

1129
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:32,980
probably the subject of the worst

1130
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,090
retaliation campaign in Scientology

1131
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:37,520
history and then Paulette and I together

1132
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:39,200
teamed up to write a book called

1133
00:48:43,810 --> 00:48:42,110
Battlefield Scientology which is kind of

1134
00:48:45,580 --> 00:48:43,820
the best of the reporting from the

1135
00:48:48,730 --> 00:48:45,590
underground bunker with introductory

1136
00:48:49,780 --> 00:48:48,740
essays by Paulette and the website I'm

1137
00:48:52,270 --> 00:48:49,790
told we've been talking about the

1138
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:52,280
underground bunker is Tony Ortega org

1139
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:09,900
[Music]

1140
00:49:18,130 --> 00:49:14,930
saikhan 2019 people are finally starting

1141
00:49:19,330 --> 00:49:18,140
to wake up anti-vaxxers denounced as a

1142
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:19,340
danger to the public

1143
00:49:25,150 --> 00:49:22,130
climate change deniers exposed as

1144
00:49:27,700 --> 00:49:25,160
ideological zealots celebrity psychics

1145
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:27,710
have been caught red-handed using

1146
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:30,530
trickery homeopathy debunked this fake

1147
00:49:36,970 --> 00:49:34,010
medicine flat-earthers seriously

1148
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:36,980
skeptics must seize this moment now is

1149
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:38,690
the time for the brightest minds and

1150
00:49:42,460 --> 00:49:40,610
science and reason to come together to

1151
00:49:44,950 --> 00:49:42,470
turn the tide against pseudoscience

1152
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:44,960
conspiracy theories and alternative

1153
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:48,800
facts and naturally we should do it in

1154
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:51,290
Vegas it's more fun that way

1155
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:54,110
now is the time for psych on 2019

1156
00:50:00,460 --> 00:49:57,170
October the 16th to the 20th at the

1157
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:00,470
Flamingo resort in Las Vegas the

1158
00:50:05,020 --> 00:50:02,530
incredible lineup of speakers includes

1159
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:05,030
actor John de Lancie of Star Trek and

1160
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:07,910
Breaking Bad Julia Sweeney of SNL and

1161
00:50:11,790 --> 00:50:08,960
letting go of God

1162
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:11,800
string theory pioneer Brian Greene

1163
00:50:17,290 --> 00:50:13,970
evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins

1164
00:50:18,970 --> 00:50:17,300
ex naturopath Brittany Hermes and many

1165
00:50:21,820 --> 00:50:18,980
more including entertainment by

1166
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:21,830
illusionist Banacek and comedian Liane

1167
00:50:28,890 --> 00:50:42,490
[Music]

1168
00:50:46,250 --> 00:50:44,599
thank you for listening to the skip

1169
00:50:48,380 --> 00:50:46,260
because I'd been that Chile was just

1170
00:50:50,270 --> 00:50:48,390
fantastic thank you so much I'm still

1171
00:50:53,810 --> 00:50:50,280
getting over oh you'll be feeling that

1172
00:50:55,420 --> 00:50:53,820
for a while now what an interesting

1173
00:50:59,420 --> 00:50:55,430
episode thank you for your help in the

1174
00:51:02,060 --> 00:50:59,430
segment on the psychic detectives and I

1175
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:02,070
remember appearing on TV 10 years ago

1176
00:51:06,890 --> 00:51:05,250
and debating oh yes I'm in town Bell who

1177
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:06,900
was the then president of the Australian

1178
00:51:12,020 --> 00:51:09,119
psychic Association he since died some

1179
00:51:13,580 --> 00:51:12,030
about four or five years ago and there's

1180
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:13,590
a classic case of no matter what I said

1181
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:15,180
all he had to say was it well of course

1182
00:51:21,950 --> 00:51:16,800
psychics solve crimes what are you

1183
00:51:23,540 --> 00:51:21,960
talking about and and it's like what do

1184
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:23,550
you say I said well no they don't it's

1185
00:51:26,089 --> 00:51:24,930
it's an urban myth oh you don't know

1186
00:51:28,190 --> 00:51:26,099
what you're talking about psychic so

1187
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:28,200
first yeah and police use them all the

1188
00:51:32,660 --> 00:51:30,210
time they just don't to admit it yes

1189
00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:32,670
it's the conspiracy to get spear see my

1190
00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:35,910
comeback are those occasions always the

1191
00:51:39,830 --> 00:51:37,710
police also use flying carpets but they

1192
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:39,840
won't admit it prove me wrong you know

1193
00:51:44,060 --> 00:51:41,570
ready

1194
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:44,070
yes I've encountered that a couple times

1195
00:51:48,380 --> 00:51:46,290
myself yeah looking into the claims

1196
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:48,390
about psychic detectives and they they

1197
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:50,250
invoke this bizarre conspiracy theory

1198
00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:52,410
that the wall everybody knows that you

1199
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:54,180
know that the psychic that the police

1200
00:51:57,620 --> 00:51:55,650
use psychics and it's all it's all

1201
00:52:00,520 --> 00:51:57,630
covered up like why would they do that

1202
00:52:02,930 --> 00:52:00,530
if if if you're giving them information

1203
00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:02,940
then and furthermore widened why

1204
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,380
wouldn't psychic simply become police

1205
00:52:09,140 --> 00:52:06,720
officers yeah I know it goes on and on

1206
00:52:11,570 --> 00:52:09,150
yeah but to explain that in a five

1207
00:52:13,070 --> 00:52:11,580
minute studio interview and when you

1208
00:52:16,490 --> 00:52:13,080
have to give most of the time try to

1209
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:16,500
believe of course they do boom boom

1210
00:52:20,839 --> 00:52:18,570
being there coming up on next week's

1211
00:52:23,660 --> 00:52:20,849
show folks a special report I went to

1212
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:23,670
the Shabo space and Science Center in

1213
00:52:28,329 --> 00:52:25,170
the Oakland Hills and had a wonderful

1214
00:52:30,589 --> 00:52:28,339
private tour of the new moon exhibition

1215
00:52:33,530 --> 00:52:30,599
I'm looking forward to here you know

1216
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:33,540
that I I saw photos I have not been

1217
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:34,920
there but I want to it's spectacular

1218
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:37,050
it's a special episode of the Skippy's

1219
00:52:40,849 --> 00:52:39,089
on next week and whatever else I can

1220
00:52:43,099 --> 00:52:40,859
drag on well once again Ben thank you

1221
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:43,109
very much in a short while once I

1222
00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:44,490
recover from these Chili's we'll be

1223
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:46,920
starting to record a session of squaring

1224
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:48,960
the strange yes looking forward to it as

1225
00:52:52,340 --> 00:52:50,970
well me too but for now folks this is

1226
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:52,350
Richard Saunders and

1227
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:53,850
then Radford signing off from

1228
00:53:02,780 --> 00:53:00,720
Albuquerque New Mexico you've been

1229
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:02,790
listening to the skeptic zone podcast

1230
00:53:12,170 --> 00:53:09,690
please visit our website at wwlp.com tax

1231
00:53:16,190 --> 00:53:12,180
and to access the bat catalog of

1232
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:16,200
episodes going back to 2008 you can

1233
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:17,910
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1234
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:20,970
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1235
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:23,250
facebook page or leave a review on

1236
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:26,640
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1237
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:30,000
zone via patreon or paypal the skeptic

1238
00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:32,370
zone podcast is an independent

1239
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:34,140
production the views and opinions

1240
00:53:38,660 --> 00:53:36,510
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1241
00:53:41,630 --> 00:53:38,670
necessarily those of Australian skeptics

1242
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:41,640
or any other skeptical organization

1243
00:54:01,099 --> 00:53:59,599
- you got my chute okay that's more than

1244
00:54:02,210 --> 00:54:01,109
we even need to do that with it with a

1245
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:02,220
script would be silly

1246
00:54:07,069 --> 00:54:04,319
yeah yeah I need to bounce off young you

1247
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:07,079
did this off me alright what's up music

1248
00:54:11,150 --> 00:54:08,880
okay or do you want to do you want to

1249
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:11,160
check that make sure it's okay yeah why

1250
00:54:15,710 --> 00:54:12,569
don't you press stop let's say that as a